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CDC 18 - 24 July - Pierre Trudel | Coach Developers

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Posted in: Coach Developer Conversations (online)

CDC 18 - 24 July - Pierre Trudel

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  • ABradshaw
    This Friday we are delighted to welcome Pierre Trudel, joining us from Canada, which means we will be starting later than normal.  Our timings will be a 12.00 start, running through to about 1.30pm (as ever if you need to go before then that's not a problem).
    I've attached a paper to have a look through as a stimulus to the discussion.  There are lots of interesting links to some of the conversations we have had in previous CDC sessions:
    • Biography / Lifelong Learning Journey (p285 & p286) - links to Anna Stodter & Chris Cushion discussions
    • Narrative Collaborative Coaching (p286 & 287) - links to Ed Cope's session
    • Appreciative Inquiry  (p288) - particularly the second paragraph linking to Gary Hodgson's chapter headings' story
    • Value Creation Framework (p290 & p291) - links to a previous CD Family Day with Don Vinson and some of our early discussions, see here https://rb.gy/kckjvq
    • Move from 'just in case' to 'just in time' learning & development approach
    Three excerpts that stood out for me were:
    Deliberate practitioners 'aspire to learning more than mastering measurable knowledge and skills; they also aspire to acquiring the means to support their need for perspective, value and meaning-making through a lifelong journey or learning and change'
    Narrative-collaborative coaching 'is reflection between two people and precisely because it is reflection, it involves both parties' inner and outer life as well as the interaction that develops between them and their mutual reflections.  Coaching is a meeting between two people, a coach and a coachee, which is continually aimed at creating optimal reflection between them.  Both parties contribute to the reflection that develops every time they meet'
    Personal coaching is 'a very specific type of conversation and not everyone, in [sport coaching] for instance, is used to having the patience and skills to help people learn in this way'
    I look forward to seeing you all virtually on Friday at lunchtime, joining details for WebEx below:
    CDC 18 - 24 July - password: vfK22bq9Ynq


  • ABradshaw

    The thread of comments on reflective practice (firstly and more later)

    • So, see learning in context (in development) and in representative environment?
    • Is reflection the common denominator?
    • Or is the ability to facilitate purposeful critical reflection (deep reflection) the difference that makes the quality difference in terms of learning and development? Is this the most important skill that PLCs need? The challenge may well be how to cultivate these skills in the development workforce...
    • I agree but also think there's a stress/burnout/headspace element to it too - good reflection is really hard if you can't calm your head from everything else
    • Isn't the sense of having no time to reflect tied to the fear of making mistakes? It's part of that sense that we must make sure everything is optimal.... which means we can't try things.
    • Is it too simplistic to simply ask coaches to 'reflect more'? Do coaches know how to reflect and what to reflect on? Difference between surface/deep level reflection. Just a thought!
    • Does that mean that if we haven’t been taught it we are scared to try it?
    • Sometimes we don’t take the time to prioritise reflection as an individual endeavour, often others help us take the time to do a deeper dive and gaze into or blind spots too … and many times this is not comfortable and we need to learn how to lean into the uncomfortable
    • I guess it depends on how we do it  - e.g. active critical reflection v passive
    • I think we maybe see ourselves as having to be accountable for each minute of every day... where non-linear progression means we have to be a bit more chilled.
    • I agree with the point about reflecting on how we help coaches reflect. Sometimes surface reflection may be enough, if coaches were to reflect deeply all the time it would be overwhelming and hard to get any coaching done!
    • I think it is useful to think about what we want to help coaches reflect on, and then to what depth
      • Reflective
      • Philosophy
      • Values
      • Emotions
      • Match Day
      • Participant Engagement
    • Reflection on family or aspects of one’s job (for volunteer coaches) may fill up the reflective time leaving little space for reflection on coaching
    • I think the 'co-creation' is key, so too is the 'safe' space.....
    • Is it about the time to reflect, but also understanding the physical space, the psychological space (mood) etc
    • agree on a combination of surface and deep dives too. How, when, where and why we reflect will 'depend' on what we need at that moment......


    • One huge challenge here is getting acceptance that we want to increase the connections & the networks and trust that good things will emerge... without pre-judging what outcomes will follow - working with confidence that value will follow rather than with a clear sense of what value we need to "get"...


    • I am interested in the idea of collaborative learning between groups of people, eg coaches and performance support practitioners, and the importance or not of common 'meaningfulness' and to what extent this is the same as values? And how these areas affect the creation of knowledge and learning?


    • Is the value creation framework mostly valuable for reflecting on value that has been added... in wider cultures where many seem to think we should be able to say what value we are going to get from what we do?


    • This speaks to the wider issue of how Coach Developers / PLCS / Mentors are selected and developed...do we develop a deep enough understanding of learning and reflection or (being flippant) are we just getting people to deliver scripted courses?


    • I like that idea of reflective conversations that are co-creative/ collaborate in a safe but challenging environment.


    • I try to encourage the coaches I work with to evaluate what they've done and reflect on what they are doing - separate the past from the future and between their practice and the bigger picture of their coaching
    • I would be intrigued to know how you facilitate the separation and what impact that has on the quality of the reflection and in turn the learning and development. I would be even more intrigued to know how you develop these skills for the CD/ PLC....


    • I come from a sport that needs a lot of reflection (equitation) and the horses appraise me continually all day long and I can’t train them without constant adaptation. Based on our thoughts, here from other sports I think we need to get the timing right when trying to encourage this process as my environment affords it more easily.


    • That really links into my question and how we may need to look at context and representation in coaching development.


    • Understand Pierre's point, coach education is frequently critiqued for its de-contextualised nature so highlights the need for in-situ support from mentors, CDs etc. But is it logistically possible for every coach to have a mentor/personal learning coach? If not, surely coach education has a role to encourage coaches to critically reflect on their underlying assumptions and beliefs, perhaps more than just making coaches 'aware' of reflection? Reflection provides a meaningful opportunity for learning if utilised in the right way



    • How well do mentors/PLCs understand reflection and reflective practice? Or are they just reproducing norms uncritically
    • Needs to be a key part of Coach Ed, especially beyond novice level
    • In my experience, reflection with young (in experience) coaches is more observation, and level of knowledge, perspective and confidence is a barrier for someone reflecting on the surface, snorkelling or deep diving


    • Interesting to consider what coaches reflect on without a base of existing knowledge?
    • everything and anything!! and perhaps not to any great effect!
    • depends on how you consider 'knowledge' and give precedence to some forms over others  


    • In a webinar released yesterday, Dave Snowden talks of how the "outsourcing" craze of the 1980s became so dysfunctional - firstly because those winning the contracts tended to lose sight of their value creation role and because outsourcing tended to reveal all the "extra" value that employyes brought over and above what they were formally doing. See https://youtu.be/nQnAlQH-SGc
    • The themes he touches on have a lot in common with what is being discussed here... trust-tagging people into groups - deliberately entangling lives to connect people with others without preconceptions of what should come out of the connection - simple basics for everyday life which return when we allow human judgement in our systems! In passing: tacit knowledge can't be made explicit - lots is held in narrative form - more is held in social connections - and transfer of tacit knowledge requires a high degree of trust - and lots more on why informal networks / communities are so critical.


    • does a formal degree make someone more knowledgeable on a subject
    • it 'depends'!


    • This table could be a good tool to get coaches to consider how each of these actors have influenced them personally! (slide 3 of attached PDF)


    • Are coaching journeys always linear? E.g. if an experienced coach critically reflects on their pre-coaching career then that could have a major influence? Interesting the number of stakeholders involved in the learning process - they will influence coaches in variable ways. What’s important for one coach won't be as important for another



    • Makes me think of the idea of getting through the 'fog'. Transformative thinking is a handrail.


    • Does companion = friend?
    • 'PLC' is a High-Performance support offer for sure and a great way to delineate the 'what' and 'how' for the coach on this space


    • That is the challenge many coach developers and NGB's are having now. The change from educator to developer and the change in assessment - many coaches are saying that they struggle with the lack of absolutes and structure.


    • contracting is key from the outset
    • PLC can be a 'sense-maker' so to speak?


    • What is noticed depends on the range of the observer. Therefore, I feel it's important to recognise the parameters of our meaning-making potential and where it might be appropriate to seek further expertise/knowledge to be able to creatively explore a problem space together.


    • Yes - encourage the entanglement of lives - the informal connections - across silos, not within them....
  • cchapman

    Awesome reflections Andy, wish I was able to attend the session.  Liked the wrestle of opinions on shining a light on an area with a coach to help them reflect such as philosophy, competition day or emotions and the 'flip side' that if we reflect deeply on everything we will be unable to have the space to coach.  'Paralysis by analysis'.  How did people feel about the balance?

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